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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:37 am 
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theremikegoes wrote:
Semi-soft mounted with a 3/4" rubber spacer to the frame.

Image
Image
don't worry... those two bolts got replaced with grade 8 haha.


Little old but, how is this working? Have any problems with the bolts coming loose?
I see this design now and then and it scares the crap out of me.
The vibration damping that rubber allows also allow the bolts to come out of tension. Even if the rubber compress only .040", that bolt is now loose and not holder the cage where it should be. This could allow one edge of the foot to slice thru the body or even break bolts because they aren't clamping correctly.

Just my opinion.
James

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:41 am 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
No issues to date, and that's after a week in Moab and lots of local trips. For as stiff as the rubber is I wonder if I might as well have just hard mounted. The tub oil canned for a day and then quieted down so I'm not sure if the soft mounts made the difference or not. I prefer this over the spring bushing method that makes a pivot point I've seen used though.

I definitely understand the design complaint, I just wasn't ready to hard mount everything. I also did try to mitigate it by bolting a plate sandwiching the body and tying to the rocker and then using the rubber between that plate and the frame. Hopefully I never have to find out if it's a sound design at any rate!


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:34 am 
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Are you going to tie the seats into the cage? If the body should detach, with your harnesses tied into the cage, that can make for a bad day.

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:26 am 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
Seats are not tied to the cage, and that does make me a little nervous. With 4 cage points tied with large plates through body to frame(a and c pillars) and b pillar "close" to a body mount, I feel a little better about the chances of the frame/cage moving in relation to the body. Or am I out to lunch there...?


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:32 am 
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Posts: 16
Location: land of defuncted reactors
Quote:
b pillar "close" to a body mount


Didn't mean to clog your thread up with "cage mounting" stuff.
Just for reference, this is a YJ body mount under the B-loop. I know TJs are different but not sure how much in the body mount department.

As you can see the hat channel isn't very thick, maybe 18ga but does have a couple bends.
The captive nut has a second metal layer on top, and the nut is fairly thick.
The body mount is maybe .095 (12-13ga), this had a slight bend when it was cut out.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:04 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
No by all means criticize away... It's just me in my garage coming up with silly ideas.

I have considered tying the b pillar to the rocker guard. Not too hard of a job and would make a big difference for the weak floor issue you brought up.


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:41 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
Installed a set of 14" fox factory series shocks tuned by Chris/Wayne at Alltech, reworked all the lower shock mounts and "blueprinted" everything. Switched to a new set of springs in the rear: moog 5377 springs that are 123# rate and 15.8" tall, came out perfect at 5.5" ride height and will go to just over 3" compressed. Ended up with 14" travel in front as measured at the bump stop and 12" at the bump stop in the rear. I'm going to center limit the rear to 11" and I need to get a real sway bar, aka antirock. The track bar binds at 11" droop (but not during articulation) and the stock rear sway bar "arms" just aren't long enough, haha.

Short story long: 14" shocks on short arms... pain in the d!ck, but possible.
That said, mid arms are definitely in my future.

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:38 am 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
10lbs shit, 5lb bag. Counter-intuitive to me, but the passenger side has less room at full bump with the driver side full droop, and that's with axle centered to 1/16" at ride height. Used the currie kit that's "bolt in" for tj and flattened the arms by about 3/4", couldnt get the arm flat at ride height because that puts the heim at the worst spot for clearance and below flat I'd be in danger of flopping the arm at droop.

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:48 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
Built a rear winch bumper... added 22# over my old one not including line or wiring. Approach angle is actually better than my old bumper, deceptive because it's just a frame cap. Also hid an air tank somewhere to make room underneath for triangulated mid arms.
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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:12 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:34 am
Posts: 531
Location: fife
Vehicle: 88 yj HP 60 front, 60 rear, Detroits, AW4 auto, flipped 300, 37s, mild stretch, linked up
That looks really good :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:13 am 
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Green YJ wrote:
That looks really good :thumbsup:

x2

One of the better looking rear winch bumpers I've seen.

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:06 am 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
Thanks, I did a lot of web wheeling and measuring before starting. Not going to lie, I screwed up on the first tube I bent... didn't leave enough room for the sides of the winch, and I did too much welding off the rig so it warped and was fun to install. The shackle mounts are from ruffstuff and worked out nicely for what I was going for.

The big things no one else seemed to do for rear winch bumpers:

Cut hole in cross member and body for frenching
Flip winch over so the hawse wont drag and make clearance worse (not reverse electrical... very different)

Side benefit of this design is it gets rid of the goofy gap from the body lift that always bothered me. Also my frame side rear body mounts were getting a little hammered(~1/4" down) and this was a good opportunity to fix that.


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:51 am 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
I suddenly want to find a need for a boom.

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:31 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:34 am
Posts: 531
Location: fife
Vehicle: 88 yj HP 60 front, 60 rear, Detroits, AW4 auto, flipped 300, 37s, mild stretch, linked up
You said you were going to go with the mid arm set up. What type of links are you going to use?


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:23 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
Green YJ wrote:
You said you were going to go with the mid arm set up. What type of links are you going to use?

Not sure yet, I think I want aluminum but haven't found a local place to buy from yet... and haven't had the sticker shock yet.

Suggestions?


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 Post subject: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:58 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
Any suggestions on this geometry? Image
My frame is 19.25" high.
lca axle end is as wide as it will go and near level with the bottom of the axle
Lca frame end is on the inside of the frame with the joint just below frame
Uca frame end can go 24.5" high before it gets difficult
Uca axle end is frenched into the truss for body clearance-much over 24" would hit tub.
These numbers are pretty close to what would fit on my jeep...

How important is roll axis angle? And how much longer do the uppers need to be to keep the pinion angle somewhat happy-equal length close enough?


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Vehicle: Tee-jay
Here's my numbers:


Image





Do what you can to lower the antisquat, more so the faster you want to drive. It'll also help on steep climbs, and keep the rear planted. Your shock tune will be good for it. I have 70ish% at ride height, 55% at full compression. Never hops, he bangs up the ledges like an Ultra4 car. WIth yours that high it will bang off of ledges and hop.

As far as roll steer, It's fuzzier to me than the rest, but what I know is keep it as flat as you can, if not negative. The front roll center being equal or lower than the rear will help in cornering (oversteer versus understeer), but as these are off road rigs with lots of travel on dirt, I dont believe it's as important than it is on a road car.

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:38 am 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
Thanks for the feedback, I was under the impression that 100% antisquat was what to shoot for... I'll revise that. I have 3 position uca frame side mounts, should I shoot for 70 in the middle hole so I can go up or down on antisquat or should it leave all the adjustment to more antisquat? I've read in a few places that increasing antisquat until it hops and then backing it down will leave you in a good place, but there's such a mountain of data out there its tough to sort through!

Also, seems you've got a better calculator than I do, does the pinion angle function work on yours?


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:38 am 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
PEBKAC, dupe post


Last edited by theremikegoes on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:02 am 
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70 is a good number. You'll like the characteristics over having 100%. Especially on droop when it goes above that. There wont be a time where you want high antisquat or super high roll center moments.

The pinion axle change (travel tab) works on mine. However on my Mac the 'Bump' and 'Droop' buttons dont work. Have to manually enter those numbers to see changes. Have you messed with the Travel tab?

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:27 am 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
I have looked at the travel tab, most of the numbers I've looked at the compression decreases a little and the droop ends up in the 180% range. Starting out at 70 cant hurt that. I think I'll shoot for 70 at the middle hole in the frame uca and that should get me 40/70/100 available-roughly.

Putting some thought in the front as well.... Since I'm not ready to build a front axle I don't want to chop this one up-especially since it would still be able to bolt in and be a good bump in travel for a future sell. So, if I swap a 1/2" bolt johnny joint into the cast housing on the front diff is it reasonable to use that and the stock lowers for a 3 link? I see this commonly done but that doesn't always mean its truly acceptable.
http://www.currieenterprises.com/CE-9112M2


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:23 pm 
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I looked at my 4-link when I was short wheelbase, and was 86% AS at ride height. It climbed very well, so if you cant get to 70, I'd say 70-85 is fine, especially since we have no clue where our COG is.


Image


I wouldn't run the cast upper personally. I cut mine off my 30 and bent up a link bridge from 1/4 or 3/8.

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:27 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
ugh... casting no good huh? I'm not so sure I have room between the diff and the frame at full bump for a truss over the pumpkin. Would suck to have to add bump stop after making everything else fit. Have to pull springs and look closer.
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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:54 pm 
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I'm not sure if it's no good, its not something I'd want to depend on completely. That, and I'd want the surface area of the larger joint on the upper. Might want to search around Jeepforum and see if people have done it. I think Blaine integrated the upper casting into his new bridge for the Savvy 3 link, but I haven't seen it yet.

Edit: can you use the passenger side for a 3rd link?

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 Post subject: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:08 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
I found a pirate thread where you thought the casting was strong enough but still said to use a truss-2017 Paul is pretty consistent with 2014 Paul, haha. GTXracer was in the same thread and said he used the casting-must have been before he destroyed his 30 for other reasons(insert lawn dart link here).

I could use the passenger side and am still considering it, but that would buy me redoing the engine skid and exhaust. If it were easy anyone could do it! Ha.

General online consensus is its not the best choice but haven't found a broken one. Like you are hinting at there's some wear concerns but that's the worst I could find. I'll check everything at full bump but have a feeling I'll be using it-at least until I decide to put money into a real axle, just not ready to do that yet.

Edit: Pirate link to discussion including casting, at the end is another guy using the casting:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-non ... -link.html


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:57 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
New alternator time... old one had squeaking bearings. Took it as an "opportunity", got a 136amp new-not reman Bosch. AL6526N bolted in pretty easily and was a reasonable 135$ on amazon. Had to swap old pulley on and old isolator block around positive connector. Much larger body than the old one but still fit without grinding.
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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Vehicle: 4500ish TJ, 2013 Raptor SCrew
theremikegoes wrote:
I found a pirate thread where you thought the casting was strong enough but still said to use a truss-2017 Paul is pretty consistent with 2014 Paul, haha. GTXracer was in the same thread and said he used the casting-must have been before he destroyed his 30 for other reasons(insert lawn dart link here).

I could use the passenger side and am still considering it, but that would buy me redoing the engine skid and exhaust. If it were easy anyone could do it! Ha.

General online consensus is its not the best choice but haven't found a broken one. Like you are hinting at there's some wear concerns but that's the worst I could find. I'll check everything at full bump but have a feeling I'll be using it-at least until I decide to put money into a real axle, just not ready to do that yet.

Edit: Pirate link to discussion including casting, at the end is another guy using the casting:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-non ... -link.html


I used the center casting for a while. I had a press-in Currie JJ that replaced the bushing. I wouldn't hesitate to run it again, it was plenty strong. I wouldn't throw a truss on there unless you drive like Paul.

If you plan to go fast off road continuously, you'll probably wear out the entire axle housing before that casted section with the bushing/JJ.

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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:27 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
gtxracer wrote:
theremikegoes wrote:
I found a pirate thread where you thought the casting was strong enough but still said to use a truss-2017 Paul is pretty consistent with 2014 Paul, haha. GTXracer was in the same thread and said he used the casting-must have been before he destroyed his 30 for other reasons(insert lawn dart link here).

I could use the passenger side and am still considering it, but that would buy me redoing the engine skid and exhaust. If it were easy anyone could do it! Ha.

General online consensus is its not the best choice but haven't found a broken one. Like you are hinting at there's some wear concerns but that's the worst I could find. I'll check everything at full bump but have a feeling I'll be using it-at least until I decide to put money into a real axle, just not ready to do that yet.

Edit: Pirate link to discussion including casting, at the end is another guy using the casting:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-non ... -link.html


I used the center casting for a while. I had a press-in Currie JJ that replaced the bushing. I wouldn't hesitate to run it again, it was plenty strong. I wouldn't throw a truss on there unless you drive like Paul.

If you plan to go fast off road continuously, you'll probably wear out the entire axle housing before that casted section with the bushing/JJ.

Thanks for the vote... good because I have a Currie press in right in front of me. I did brace it underneath, it's c gusseted, and have a sleeve kit that's going in when I link it. Should hold up to some mild go fast.


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:53 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
ImageImage
Made some progress today, everything is chopped out except frame side uppers. Mock up of a lower at ride height. After doing some mock up stuff I'm going to double triangulate, makes the lower clear the frame at bump without putting a bend in it. Arms look like they'll be about 27" long.


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 Post subject: Re: TJ mild build...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:12 pm 
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whew, finally

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Port Orchard
Vehicle: 98 tj 35's, 56 m38a1 3/4 ton running gear h1 37's
ImageImageImage
All done except exhaust! Hoping Kitsap muffler can work me in to do some fiddly bends to reconnect the middle.
75% antisquat rear and 75% antidive front... yes it brake dives, lol.


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